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John Gotti trial; Salvatore Gravano’s testimony

Salvatore Gravano was the underboss of Gambino Family; he decided to collaborate after he was arrested in 1990; he was asked by federal procurator John Gleeson.

Gleeson: what’s your name?
Gravano: Salvatore Gravano.

Gleeson: Do you have a nickname?
Gravano: Sammy.

Gleeson: How old are you?
Gravano: 46.

Gleeson: Are you married?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Where do you live?
Gravano: Staten Island.

Gleeson: Where were you born?
Gravano: Brooklyn.

Gleeson: When did you leave the school?
Gravano: When I was 16 years old, about in 1961.

Gleeson: Have you ever been in the army?
Gravano: Yes, from 1964 to 1966.

Gleeson: What did you do when you left the army?
Gravano: I sometimes worked.

Gleeson: Have you ever done crimes?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: What kind of crimes?
Gravano: Robberies, gambling, murders.

Gleeson: Which neighbourhood of Brooklyn were you born?
Gravano: Bensonhurst.

Gleeson: Have you ever met people involved in organized crime?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Have you ever been an organized crime’s member?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Were you the underboss of Gambino family when you were arrested in December 1990?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: What does “administration” mean?
Gravano: The “administration” is composed by boss, underboss and consigliere; it’s the head of the family.

Gleeson: Who were the members of the “administration” when you were arrested?
Gravano: I was the underboss, John Gotti was the boss, “Joey Piney” was the consigliere. Frankie was the acting consigliere.

Gleeson: When do you say Frankie you mean Frank LoCascio?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Who’s “Joey Piney”?
Gravano: Joseph Armone.

Gleeson: Who comes after the “administration”?
Gravano: The captains do.

Gleeson: Do you know the names of the captains?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: What kind of job did you do when you lived in Bensonhurst?
Gravano: I worked with my brother-in-law, we had a building enterprise.

Gleeson: What’s his name?
Gravano: Eddie Garofalo.

Gleeson: Have you ever been a member of Gambino Family?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: What does it mean the expression “to stay with somebody”?
Gravano: When you stay with somebody you’re a crime family’s associate; it means you are under their protection.

Gleeson: Have you ever stayed with somebody?
Gravano: Yes, in 1968.

Gleeson: With who?
Gravano: Shorty Spero of Colombo Family.

Gleeson: What kind of crimes did you do in that period?
Gravano: Robberies, gambling, usury. I had a club.

Gleeson: Did you do these crimes alone?
Gravano: No, with others.

Gleeson: How long have you gone round with Shorty Spero?
Gravano: For about 4 years.

Gleeson: And after?
Gravano: I quarrelled with his brother. They organized a meeting, there were Alley Boy Persico, Shorty and Toddo, a captain in Gambino Family; I was released to Gambino’s.

Gleeson: What does it mean?
Gravano: I was under Colombo’s protection, but I had problems with them. Toddo guaranteed for me and they released me to Gambino’s.

Gleeson: What did Toddo do exactly?
Gravano: He attended the meeting and spoke for me.

Gleeson: What kind of advantages do you have when you are under protection?
Gravano: If I had a club or a gambling den, nobody could hurt me because I was protected.

Gleeson: Did you pass to Gambino Family in 1972, am I right?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: What kind of crimes did you do when you were under Gambino’s protection?
Gravano: Murders, usury, buildings, unions…

Gleeson: Did you divide your earnings with somebody?
Gravano: Yes, with Toddo.

Gleeson: Have you ever been a “made member” in Gambino Family?
Gravano: Yes, I became a “made member” in 1976.

Gleeson: Who was the family boss in 1976?
Gravano: Paul Castellano.

Gleeson: Was he related to Carlo Gambino?
Gravano: Yes, he was his brother-in-law.

Gleeson: Who were the underboss and consigliere?
Gravano: Neil Dellacroce was the underboss, Joe Gallo was the consigliere.

Gleeson: What was Castellano’s rank before he became the boss?
Gravano: He was a captain.

Gleeson: How did you become a “made member”?
Gravano: A day Toddo went to the club and told me to be elegant because we had a meeting; I remember there was also Toddo’son, “Charlie Boy”. We went to “Frankie Wop” house in Brooklyn, a member of Gambino family. When I arrived there were other people, Toddo told me to wait with them; after he called me and took me in a room in the below floor where there were some people sat down around a table. I noticed there were Paul, Neil, Joe Gallo and some captains; they told me to sit down near Paul; he asked me if I knew what I was doing, I answered not, despite I imagined it; he asked me if I knew the present people, I answered I knew them. He told me that was a society and he was going to introduce me into Gambino Family. He asked me if I liked all present people, I answered yes; he did me other questions, he wanted to know if I’d kill if he’d asked me it, I answered yes, he asked what hand I shot with… after he took an holy picture, he pierced my right forefinger, when the blood strained on the picture, he burned it and told me to repeat his words, “if I’ll betray this family my flesh burn like this holy picture”. After they kissed me and told me I was their “brother”, I was in the “brotherhood”.

Gleeson: What happened when the ritual finished?
Gravano: They told me to sit down, they called another people and they did the same thing with him; after they told me about society’s rules.

Gleeson: What did they tell you?
Gravano: They told me not to deal drug, rape women and quarrel with other “brothers”; they told me I was under a captain and he’d explain me other rules in the future.

Gleeson: Did they tell you about the “administration”?
Gravano: They told me who were the boss, the underboss, the consigliere and the captains present in the room. They told me there were other families and the Commission.

Gleeson: What’s the Commission?
Gravano: The Commission is formed by New York’s five family bosses.

Gleeson: What did they tell you about introductions?
Gravano: When you introduce a “made member” to another “made” you must say, ”this is our friend”; if he’s not “made” you must say, “this is my friend”.

Gleeson: Did you say they told you not to deal drug, am I right?
Gravano: Yes, no drug.

Gleeson: What was your role when you were the underboss?
Gravano: I worked with buildings, I spoke to captains about problems and I helped John to run the family.

Gleeson: Did you speak to them about criminal business?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Was some captain involved in drug trafficking?
Gravano: Yes, but without permission.

Gleeson: And did they do it the same?
Gravano: I think so.

Gleeson: When did you know John Gotti?
Gravano: I knew John Gotti in a club, he was released from prison some months before; Frankie DeCicco introduced him to me and told me he was a “made member”.

Gleeson: Under which captain was John Gotti?
Gravano: “Charley Wagons”.

Gleeson: Was he related to “Danny Wagons”?
Gravano: Yes, he was his brother.

Gleeson: Was “Danny Wagons” in the same crew?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: What’s their surname?
Gravano: Fatico.

Gleeson: Did you usually meet John Gotti after you’ve known him?
Gravano: I met him during weddings or funerals; I sometimes met him in the districts.

Gleeson: Which districts did you meet him?
Gravano: Brooklyn, Manhattan.

Gleeson: What’s there in Manhattan?
Gravano: There was a club, I met him in a club; I was took by Frankie DeCicco.

Gleeson: Did you meet anybody else?
Gravano: Angelo Ruggiero, Gene Gotti…

Gleeson: Have you ever known Frank LoCascio?
Gravano: Yes, I’ve known him after Gotti.

Gleeson: Was he a “made member”?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Under which captain was Frank LoCascio?
Gravano: He was in a Bronx’s crew; I don’t remember the name of the captain.

Gleeson: Did you do murders during the 1976-1986 period?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: How many murders?
Gravano: 8 murders..

Gleeson: Did you do these murders with other Gambino Family’s members?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Was your crew famous for that?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Which other crews were famous for that?
Gravano: John and Frankie’s crews.

Gleeson: Who ordered you to do murders?
Gravano: Paul Castellano before, John Gotti after.

Gleeson: When did you become a captain?
Gravano: After Castellano’s murder.

Gleeson: Who were your partners in the building enterprise?
Gravano: Eddie Garofalo and Joe Madonia.

Gleeson: Which building’s labour unions were controlled by Gambino Family?
Gravano: Teamster 282, Local 23…

Gleeson: Who was the Teamster’s person linked to Gambino Family?
Gravano: The labour union’s president, John Cody.

Gleeson: How the Family exercised the control of the Teamster 282?
Gravano: We spoke to entrepreneurs and if they had to employ a Teamster’s foreman, we asked the foreman to begin working some months after and finish some months before; so the entrepreneur saved and we made money.

Gleeson: How did you make money?
Gravano: The entrepreneurs paid us.

Gleeson: Did you get favours from enterprises through the labour unions?
Gravano: Yes, of course; the labour union asked the enterprises what kind of job there was and told them to accept our enterprises giving us the contracts.

Gleeson: Did the enterprises pay you?
Gravano: Yes; the money was divided between the “administration” and sometimes the unionists.

Gleeson: Did you take part in Castellano and Bilotti’s murder?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Did you know Tommy Bilotti?
Gravano: Yes; he was a Gambino captain.

Gleeson: Why Castellano and Bilotti were murdered?
Gravano: There were a lot of reasons; Castellano wasn’t interested in the family, he wanted to earn money only for himself. He ordered to kill a Gambino captain in Connecticut and asked another family to do that, he did favours to other families and neglected our needs… Paul had problems with a lot of people.

Gleeson: What’s the name of the captain murdered in Connecticut?
Gravano: Piccolo; he ran our business in Connecticut.

Gleeson: When did you decide to kill Castellano?
Gravano: About 10 months before his murdered, Robert DiBernardo told me Angelo Ruggiero wanted to meet me in Queens.

Gleeson: Where in Queens?
Gravano: 101th Avenue.

Gleeson: What’s there?
Gravano: A John Gotti’s club.

Gleeson: What did Ruggiero tell you?
Gravano: He wanted to know if I was agree about the murder; I asked if John and Frankie DeCicco were agree and he answered yes. I told him I’d speak to Frankie about this fact before answering.

Gleeson: Did you speak to DeCicco?
Gravano: Yes, I spoke to him in a club in the Bath Avenue.

Gleeson: What did DeCicco tell you?
Gravano: Well… at that time we did a lot of speeches about Paul; DeCicco asked me what I thought about it and finally we told John Gotti, through DiBernardo, we were agree with him.

Gleeson: What was DiBernardo’s rank?
Gravano: He was a soldier, but he was in friendship with Paul Castellano, he helped him to run some important business.

Gleeson: What did you usually say about Castellano’s murder, Mr. Gravano?
Gravano: We wondered if to do it or not, how many captains were agree with us, if we’d have problems with the Commission or his relatives.

Gleeson: Did you want the other captains agreement?
Gravano: We especially wanted the old men’s agreement; we asked “Joey Piney” and he told us he was agree, he also said Joe Gallo, the consigliere, was agree.

Gleeson: Did you meet “Joey Piney”?
Gravano: Yes, we met him in a Staten Island’s home; he told us there wouldn’t be problems with the old men. The only problems could be with people from West Side.

Gleeson: What did he mean when he said “people from West Side”?
Gravano: The Genovese’s.

Gleeson: How many crews were involved in the murder?
Gravano: Except mine, John Gotti, Frank DeCicco, Joseph Armone and DiBernardo’s crews.

Gleeson: Were you a soldier at that time?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Did Neil Dellacroce take part in the murder?
Gravano: No, he was sick, he died before…

Gleeson: Did you spoke to other families about the murder’s plane?
Gravano: Yes; we approached “Vic” and “Gas” of Lucchese Family, we told “Gas” to inform “Chirsty Tick” about our plane. The boss and the underboss were under trial.

Gleeson: Who were “Vic” and “Gas”?
Gravano: A captain and a soldier of Lucchese Family.

Gleeson: and “Chirsty Tick”?
Gravano: The consigliere of Lucchese Family.

Gleeson: Did you have good relations with them?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Were they agree with your murder’s plane?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Did you approach other families?
Gravano: Angelo Ruggiero spoke to Colombo Family, there weren’t problems with them.

Gleeson: Who did he approach?
Gravano: “Gerry Lang”, the underboss, and “Donny Shacks”, a captain; Carmine Persico was imprisoned at that time.

Gleeson: Did you approach only Colombo and Lucchese families?
Gravano: We also approached the Bonanno’s; Joe Massino, the underboss, was in friendship with John Gotti, they were agree with us. The only family we didn’t approach were the Genovese’s.

Gleeson: Why?
Gravano: We didn’t trust them.

Gleeson: Can you explain the Castellano’s murder plane?
Gravano: We decided to kill him out of the Sparks Steak House; We knew he had a meeting in the restaurant and we wanted to kill him when he’d go out of that.

Gleeson: Who had to take part at the meeting?
Gravano: “Jimmy Brown”, John Gammarano, Danny Marino, Frank DeCicco, Tommy Gambino, Tommy Bilotti and others.

Gleeson: Did only Frank DeCicco know about the murder’s plane?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Did you do a meeting to prepare the plane?
Gravano: Yes; the day before the murder there was an important meeting in my Brooklyn’s office. There were Frankie DeCicco, John Gotti, Angelo Ruggiero, Eddie Lino, “Fat Sally”, Vinnie Artuso, John Carneglia, “Tony Roach”, “Joe Watts”, “Iggy”.

Gleeson: Which crews were they in?
Gravano: Eddie Lino, “Fat Sally”, “Iggy”, John Carneglia and “Tony Roach” were in John Gotti’s crew; “Joe Watts” was in Frankie DeCicco’s crew; Vinnie Artuso was in a Bronx’s crew.

Gleeson: What’s “Tony Roach” name?
Gravano: Anthony Rampino.

Gleeson: Did you decide who had to shoot?
Gravano: Yes; Eddie Lino, “Fat Sally”, Vinnie Artuso and John Carneglia. They had to wait in front of the restaurant.

Gleeson: Where’s exactly the Sparks?
Gravano: On the 46th Avenue, Manhattan.

Gleeson: Did you decide anything else in that meeting?
Gravano: At first we had to meet in a park near the restaurant; after the killers had to go in front of the restaurant and the others had to wait into the cars. Everybody had to be armed.

Gleeson: Were you armed?
Gravano: Yes, I had a gun and a walkie-talkie.

Gleeson: Who did you meet in the park?
Gravano: The same persons I saw at the meeting, except Frank DeCicco.

Gleeson: What was your role?
Gravano: I had to protect shooters’ rear, in the case somebody would intervene.

Gleeson: Rampino’s role?
Gravano: The same.

Gleeson: What were Ruggiero, “Watts” and “Iggy” roles?
Gravano: They were the drivers, but they were armed the same.

Gleeson: What was John Gotti’s role?
Gravano: He waited in the car.

Gleeson: Can you explain the execution’s phase?
Gravano: I was in Gotti’s car parked in front of the restaurant, on the other side there was Rampino, at the end of the street there were Ruggiero, “Joe Watts” and “Iggy”; when I saw the Castellano’s Lincoln arrived, I called the shooters with walkie-talkie and informed them. When the Lincoln was parking in front of the Sparks Steak House the shooters went near it and shot to death Castellano and Bilotti while they were going down the car.

Gleeson: Were there persons around?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: What did you do after the shooting?
Gravano: We go away slowly.

Gleeson: Did you do a meeting after the murder?
Gravano: Yes, some days after, at Caesar’s East Restaurant on the 58th Avenue.

Gleeson: Who took part in the meeting?
Gravano: Joe Gallo and all the captains.

Gleeson: Who was present except the captains?
Gravano: I was present but I wasn’t a captain at that time. Angelo Ruggiero was present too.

Gleeson: Why were you present if you weren’t captains?
Gravano: We had to intimidate them, we knew the fact and were under Gotti’s protection.

Gleeson: What did Joe Gallo say?
Gravano: He said nobody knew who killed Paul; he told the captains he would run the family until a new boss was elected and not to speak about the fact outside the family.

Gleeson: Were there other meetings after?
Gravano: Yes, we met into a cafeteria in North Manhattan; there were Joe Gallo, “Joey Piney”, Angelo Ruggiero, John Gotti and Frank DeCicco.

Gleeson: What did you say during that meeting?
Gravano: We spoke about other families, how we had to act with them; Joe Gallo told us we couldn’t say the truth about Castellano’s murder, because to kill a boss without the Commission’s permission was a grave thing. After he said the captains had to elect a new boss.

Gleeson: If to kill a boss was against the rules why did you ask other families about that?
Gravano: There were unofficial contacts, we just asked them to see what they thought about that, but only the Commission could to decide to kill a boss.

Gleeson: Did you approach some families after the murder?
Gravano: Yes, we told them we knew nothing about the murder and we were investigating; we said we hadn’t problems inside the family and we were intact.

Gleeson: Did you approach the same persons you spoke before the murder?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Did you elect a new boss?
Gravano: Yes, there was a meeting in Lower Manhattan; there were Joe Gallo and all the captains. They had to elect a new boss; suddenly Frank DeCicco stood up and named John Gotti, after all captains named John Gotti as the new boss and he became the boss.

Gleeson: Before Castellano’s murder did you spoke to Frank DeCicco about who could be the new boss?
Gravano: Yes; at first we thought of Frank DeCicco as the new boss.

Gleeson: What did DeCicco tell you?
Gravano: He said he could be the underboss, instead John Gotti didn’t want to be the underboss. John was ambitious and if DeCicco was elected boss, John would hurt him.

Gleeson: What was John Gotti’s rank before he became the boss?
Gravano: He was a captain.

Gleeson: And DeCicco’s rank?
Gravano: Captain.

Gleeson: What happened after John Gotti became the boss?
Gravano: When he was elected, John Gotti designated Frank DeCicco underboss and left Joe Gallo consigliere. Some months after, when Gallo retired, he designated Georgie DeCicco, Frankie’s uncle, consigliere.

Gleeson: Did it happen during the meeting?
Gravano: Yes.

Gleeson: Did John Gotti designate new captains?
Gravano: Yes, some weeks after the meeting I became a captain. He also designated Angelo Ruggiero and Sonny Ciccone captains.

Gleeson: Who did you replace?
Gravano: Toddo; he was old and he wanted to retire.

Gleeson: Who did Sonny Ciccone replace?
Gravano: Anthony Scotto.

Gleeson: What happened after John Gotti designated the new “administration”?
Gravano: We informed other families we had a new “administration” and told them the names; we didn’t want restrictions or sanctions inside the Commission.

Gleeson: Why were you afraid about sanctions?
Gravano: Because our preview boss was murdered and we didn’t give any explanations about that; we thought somebody could sanctioned us, we could lose seat and vote inside the Commission.

Gleeson: How did you avoid sanctions?
Gravano: We told other families we had a new boss, we hadn’t problems inside the family and all captains were agree. We also told them we were investigating about Paul’s murder and we didn’t want restrictions inside the Commission.

Gleeson: What did they answer you?
Gravano: They answered there weren’t problems. Except Genovese’s; they said they weren’t agree, a boss was killed without permission and somebody in the future would pay for that when the Commission would met.

Gleeson: Have you ever been sanctioned?
Gravano: No.

Gleeson: ok, thanks.
Gravano: You’re welcome.

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